Thanks for the latest price which i had not seen ahead of
I am not sure should you have entry to Douglas Richardson’s Plantagnet Ancestry or perhaps not, since it try created because a reference to own Us citizens which have colonial ancestors from Plantagenet descent. The guy offers as one of his evidences you to definitely Joanna was new mommy from Gwladus Ddu the reality that Llewelyn provided the qualities out of Knighton and you can Norton castles in the Shropshire so you’re able to Ralph Mortimer whenever he and Gwladus was basically partnered. It would was basically illegal to own Llewelyn to provide Joanna’s property to an enthusiastic illegitimate child (otherwise individual who wasn’t a child from Joanna). The newest services of Norton and Knighton stayed from the Mortimer household members after that. The fresh new estimate are, “That if this new Queen offer House in order to a Sloven gelin bul guy having an effective woman regarding their kindred into the honest matrimony, therefore the lady dyeth in the place of matter, the person regarding the Kings circumstances should perhaps not hold it having his lifetime, as the lady was the cause of the provide.” Put differently, the properties would have reverted to the newest top before it would-have-been given to an infant who was simply not Joanna’s.
Hi, Marilyn, I didn’t gain access to this new Plantaganet Ancestry of the Doug Richardson, however, performed gain access to the numerous talks associated with your and you can their concepts together with other genealogists (specific to have your, but the majority of along with against). I do believe, while i made in my personal previous paper, one exactly what swings they personally(Joanna as the mommy out of Gwladus), is the transfer of qualities you talk about to Ralph de- Mortimer abreast of his ed a couple of their pupils ‘John’ and you will ‘Joan.’ I can not suppose if Gwladus had been the brand new ded their unique college students hence. Inspite of the objections within eminent genealogists We talk about more than, there can be an over-all consensus one to Gwladus Ddu should be reasonably defined as the new daughter out of Llywelyn ab Iorwerth because of the Joanna, daughter (subsequently legitimised) from John, King out-of The united kingdomt. I’d like to grab which possible opportunity to go along with Sharon (when you look at the a contact for me) one Llywelyn’s child Gwenllian was by Tangwystyl rather than Joanna, and so are blood cousin so you’re able to Gruffudd. We feet so it partly into the today’s listing found in ‘Royal and other Historical emails Illustrative of your own reign from Henry 111,’ edited by Rev. Walter W. Shirley, vol step one. To your pages 500-503 ‘s the transcript out of a unique page dated Marshall, Earl out of Pembroke, to Queen Henry 111. Within letter, Marshall talks about their siege of the castles regarding Crum, Kilmore and O’Realy. He listings the people he based in the castle O’Realy whenever they surrendered, it integrated: “…uxor Wilelmi de Lascy, filia Leulini, soror Griffini de patre mais aussi matre, mais aussi uxor Thomae Blund fratis dicti Willelmi, et mater dictorum Willelmi mais aussi Thomae ….” I am advised this ensures that i have here Gwenllian, child away from Prince llywelyn, just who is apparently called ‘aunt of Gruffudd.’ As we know Gruffudd to be the fresh illegitimate young buck of Llywelyn, it’s taken one to ‘de- patre et matre’ ensures that Gwenllian and Gruffudd have been complete blood sister and you can aunt. Got Gwenllian become Joanna’s daughter which Queen Henry’s niece, undoubtedly Marshall will have mentioned thereon facts? Which incapacity regarding de Lacy’s spouse because the king’s relative, are taken as close particular facts that Gwenllian was not the fresh new child of the king’s sibling Joanna.
These types of attributes were part of Joanna’s maritagium out of her dad Queen John
Ken: Thanks for you to reference to Gwenllian. I’m definitely not an expert genealogist, but I really do many research on my own lines. I believe some of the “pros” are incredibly jealous and you may frustrated of each and every almost every other (at least obviously ways in a few of the things it blog post). Discover items that we’re not gonna understand with certainty on the people in the latest MA because they did not remain public record information such i carry out now, therefore genealogists and you can historians have to use their finest wisdom for the sorting something away. Actually, vital records try a pretty “new” build – of many says in the us didn’t keep suggestions away from births and fatalities before the very early 1900’s. We fall under several lineage societies in which I’ve had in order to prove eleven or several years, and you may trust in me it is hard. Thus i most take pleasure in the situation from contrasting MA ancestors. (And also the sad question is the fact that the ideas available toward MA try of the royalty and you may nobility – absolutely nothing anyway to your prominent anybody).